moggy lover

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Posts by moggy lover

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  14

  My thoughts on the memorial.....yea I did go

  by Soledad in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was dull.

  i could have sworn that i heard the same talk 20 years ago.

  witnesses look tired, bored, lifeless.

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  moggy lover

  Very well written post. Keep up the good work.
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  14

  Help Needed for articles involving Re-Creation...

  by Tuesday in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hi folks,.

  i don't have access to a wt library cd-rom, so i was wondering if i could get some assistance.

  the theory of resurrection, where every single part of a person is re-created (their memories are remembered by god, they are then re-created into a re-created body), someone from my youtube channel challenged me regarding articles in the wt or awake that state this.

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  moggy lover

  The Watchtower system has an extremely well tuned editorial policy that sifts out any offending terminology, or phraseology that are likely to embarrass the leadership. Hence you will not find, especially among the later issues of Watchtower publications such words as "recreate" or even the latest stumbling block for the GB: "the generation of 1914" [Since 1995, the words "generation" and "1914" are never permitted to be in congruity]

  However there is the occasional slip, and in connection with what you asked, I can only find one time when the word "recreate" slipped past the editorial oversight committee. This was the 1977 publication "Life Does Have A Purpose" which on page 175 makes this comment:

  "God will accurately recreate each individual with his entire life pattern"

  Hope this helps.
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  22

  What was the accepted translation before the NWT?

  by tenyearsafter in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i seem to be drawing a blank, but i can't recall what the the "accepted" translation for jw's was pre-nwt?

  if it was the kj or one of the other translations favored by christendom, how did the wts work around the translation errors "corrected" by the nwt?...john 1:1, extensive use of jehovah in nt, etc.

  ?.

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  moggy lover

  Hi, 10YA: Here are the readings:

  Jo 1:1 a The text itself: "In the beginning was the Logos and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God".

  The Interlinear: "In a beginning was the Word and the Word was with the God and a god was the Word". [My mum's old copy has a neatly underlined notation saying "compare with original" in the margins.]

  Jo 8:58: "Indeed I assure you, Before Abraham was born, I am he"

  Acts 20:28: "Take heed to yourselves therefore and to All the FLOCK, among whom the HOLY SPIRIT made you Overseers, to feed the CHURCH of GOD which he acquired by the blood of his own" [The capitals are in the original and refer to a glossary at the back of the book where these words are defined.]

  Rev 19:1 "After these things, I heard a loud voice as of a great crowd in HEAVEN saying: "Hallelujah! the SALVATION and the GLORY and the POWER to our God"

  Hope this helps.
• 
  22

  What was the accepted translation before the NWT?

  by tenyearsafter in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i seem to be drawing a blank, but i can't recall what the the "accepted" translation for jw's was pre-nwt?

  if it was the kj or one of the other translations favored by christendom, how did the wts work around the translation errors "corrected" by the nwt?...john 1:1, extensive use of jehovah in nt, etc.

  ?.

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  moggy lover

  According to the testimony of my mum, the Watchtower followers in the early years evidently went through three phases:.

  1 In the early years, prior to 1902, the Watchtower followers did not really do any mass evangelism, since this was considered the province of "colporteusrs" or full time reps of the Watchtower. These used the KJV, with Watchtower authorized "explanations" printed at the back like an innocuous appendix. This appendix/explanation contained the Watchtower Received Interpretations of texts such as Jo 1:1, 20:28, etc.

  2 From 1902, the Watchtower followers used a sort of Hybrid Bible. They used the KJV for the OT, but stitched to it was the Emphatic Diaglott, the translation of the NT that Russel purchased in that year.

  3 In 1944, the Watchtower purchased the printing rights to the ASV Bible, which naturally was better for than the KJV, since this version used "Jehovah" consistently in the OT. Now they carried a new kind of Hybrid Bible. It had the ASV OT, and neatly stitched into it was the ED for the NT.

  About the only people who were pleased with this arrangement were the book binders who were kept busy keeping up with the changing light of the Watchtower. Nice little earner for some.
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  16

  NEW VIDEO: Randy Watters, Free Minds

  by V in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wholely upgraded production and big help from our awesome volunteers.

  enjoy!.

  http://www.vimeo.com/3845629.

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  moggy lover

  Excellent production. Score one for the good guys.

  Will you be formatting the video at some later time so that it could be downloaded to a hard drive, like the others?
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  38

  Paradise Won't Be "Instant"

  by cameo-d in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have heard that "paradise" will be achieved gradually; that it will take all of the thousand years to reach that state of perfection.. .

  now, while you may be convinced that it will take all that time to bring the earth back to it's pristine state....suppose it applies to humans as well?.

  imagine this scenerio: wounds and broken bones heal slowly and gradually; your bags and sags are still there, but since you have seen results of other people, you hang on that the promise will be for you, too.

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  moggy lover

  The nightmare I used to have was that the "new system/order/world" [or whatever the latest nomenclature is] wasn't just going to be a tyranny, but that it was going to be a bureaucratic tyranny. Petty bureaucrats themselves, the current Watchtower leadership love the existence of files and chits, and memos all signed, counter-signed, filed, refiled, circulated, lost, found, refiled again, recirculated, discussed, categorized, in and endless and meaningless cycle and all sufficient to keep even the most abject clerk deliriously happy.

  Remember that the "new system,etc" is going to be merely an extension of today's Watchtower arrangement. Hence, who you marry, where you live, how many children you can have, what job you will maintain, the clothes you will wear, will all be determined according to applications signed in triplicate, with several counter signatures, which will then have to be categorized, filed, discussed, processed, circulated, discussed with even more files and then, in the sufficiency of time they will slowly grind their way upward through the bureaucratic chain to be further discussed, added to with even more memos, addendums, riders, circumlocutions, till they reach the top where even further cogitations will be processed, appeals lodged, with sub-sections filled with relevant by-laws needing further clarification being sought, and on and on and on.

  By the time an unequivocal decision is made, Satan will be let out of his restraints, making his alternative not so bad an idea after all.

  It is not the meek, but the Watchtower bureaucrats who will inherit the earth, and swords won't be beaten into ploughshares, but into pens and reams and reams and reams of paper.
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  26

  IF YOU STILL READ THE BIBLE WHAT VERSION DO YOU READ??

  by Ohio Nana in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have my jw bible but also have the good news bible that was used at the lutheran church i went to for about 8 yrs back in the 80's.. one (jw)is hard to read and understand some of the books and the (good news)other is to easy and leaves somethings out, well the jw one does to.. .

  o.n..

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  moggy lover

  NASB
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  15

  Is the WTS About to Massage the Numbers in a huge Way?

  by dismayed in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  obviously with no end-time date being out there right now, the wt to motivate members.

  stagnation is the word that comes up frequently on the board here, and a currently active member, i see it permeating the dub attitude.

  so this week's study article was interesting in that it potentially expands the area where dubs can count their time.

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  moggy lover

  Can someone please clarify something for me? Has the official policy of the Watchtower changed since I left some thirty years ago?

  Can an elder now count his hours if he is making a shepherding call on a Watchtower follower who needs some guidance? This was a no-no in my time and even COs refused to do this because no time was counted. "Wasted theocratic time" we called it. If someone was depressed, well, tough. Let him go out on the FS. That'll larn him. Depressed, indeed. What we would do is get these ones out on the service, and counsel them at that time. Kill two birds with one stone, heh? We count the time, and they get counselled, and Bob's your uncle.

  Can an elder count his hour that he gives at a public talk? I know the GB members count the time that they posture about the world's stage making elliptical utterances. But local elders? Again that was a no-no in my time. I can see elders grasping for giving talks all over the place. Sure beats trudging from door-to-door in an otherwise meaningless exercise.

  The pages from the Jan 15 09 Wt only mentions that these things are part of the Watchtower follower's ministry, but I see no authorization to count the hours. My understanding is that the "brothers" volunteer their services in this way, as a commendable institutionalized way to "minister"
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  14

  GB Member says....

  by Kosonen in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  samuel herd, a governing body member says in his speach "the miracle of prayer":.

  "god does not answer all prayers.

  prayers for world peace, he does not answer them.".

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  moggy lover

  What concerns me is Herd's point no 2. He mentioned that all prayers must be made "in Jesus' name"....Right?

  Then I would like to know how an average rank and file Watchtower follower can pray "in Jesus name" when at the same Jesus is not the mediator for that person. Jesus, remember, as far as Watchtower theology is concerned, is the mediator only for the "anointed".

  The marvel of praying "in Jesus name" only arises when it is acknowledged that He IS the Mediator. Indeed that text which proclaims Jesus as the Mediator between God and men, is referring to prayer. [1 Tim 2:5, but see verses 1-5]
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  10

  Christ presence started in 1914: Acknowledge since 1925?

  by Nick! in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  christ presence started in 1914: acknowledged since 1925?.

  according to the second wt article in the march 15th edition of this year, paragraph 4 states that (translation) jehovahs witnesses recognize since 1925 that the first world war and the events which followed, constitute a clear evidence that christ presence in his heavenly kingdom started in 1914.. could someone kindly scan the english version of the above article and post-it online?.

  it is the first time, at least personally, that i read such a statement in a wt literature.. according to the book captive of a concept by don cameron, chapter 3 page 22-23, the first time the wt recognized that christs presence happened in 1914, was only in 1943.. how is it possible that this article of 2009 points to the year 1925 as the time when the jw first recognized the true event associated with 1914?.

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  moggy lover

  Since the Watchtower leadership and its anonymous writers regularly and pointedly speak with forked tongues in all their major doctrinal pronouncements there is always a measure of truth mixed with falsehood in those pronouncements. Take all their statements with a pinch of salt, and seek confirmation from more objective sources.

  The truth is far more prosaic, and ironically more complex that that found in Watchtower literature.

  1 Originally the Watchtower deity told his lackey, CT Russell, that:

  a. Jesus came invisibly to earth in 1874.

  b. There would then follow one generation of forty years when the "harvest" would be garnered, and the footstep followers of Christ would be selected. At the end of that generation, which would be in 1914, Christ would begin his reign, the Gentile nations would topple and the world would end.

  2 By 1925 this teaching had obviously become too absurd to maintain so Rutherford discovered that either this same deity who spoke to Russell, or another one, approached him and revealed a new "truth" This was that: a Jesus came invisibly in 1874, and

  b Jesus had only just begun to rule in 1914. Hitherto Jesus' taking up His rule signaled the end of Gentile rule and the end of the world, now it was discovered that it signalled the beginning of the end of Gentile rule. Now there was evidently a hiatus discovered, and rather than destroy the Gentile nations immediately, a generation would again be allowed to pass, before this destruction would occur.

  c. Rather than predicting the 1914 War beforehand, the significance of this conflict was only recognized in hindsight. Up to 1925, the Watchtower "explained" Matt 24:7 by pointing to the various conflicts that occurred in the 19th C, such as the Napoleonic wars, that began the century, the US Civil War, The Franco-Prussian War, etc. Now they conveniently had one central conflict to focus attention on. Their deity must be a slow learner. Took him eleven years to see this significance.

  3 1929 was the last time we hear about the dreaded date of 1874. In the book "Prophecy" [an oxymoron if ever there was one] on page 65 we have this sage remark: "The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in 1874"

  4 In 1932, in a brief, almost innocuous remark, the date 1914 is linked, not only with the rule of Christ which like his "presence" began "invisibly that year, but also with his second presence. If you blink you'd miss this remark. It is tucked away in a largely forgettable little booklet called "What is Truth"

  5 In 1943, Freddy Franz tidied up much of the tardy Watchtower theology that Rutherford bequeathed to the leaders as his unwanted legacy. Now, officially, Christ came invisibly in 1914, His rule invisibly began in that year, and the last generation, the "1914 generation" was given its genesis.